4M Grain & Livestock: Successfully Building a Farming Business from Scratch

In this episode, Western SARE’s Stacie Clary talks with Anna Merriman of 4M Grain and Livestock in Malta Montana. Anna shares her family’s journey in starting an organic farming operation from the very beginning, by taking opportunities as the arise. She’s transparent about the learning curves along the way. The conversation also touches on farm business management, succession, and balancing multiple business ventures. Discover practical advice on opportunity, organization, and community support that can help aspiring farmers succeed.  

As Anna encourages other farmers, "Lean on your support system and don't try to do it all on your own."

(photo:  Jennifer Ray Photography)

____________

Thanks for listening to Fresh Growth! To learn more about Western SARE and sustainable agriculture, visit our website or find us:

 · Instagram

· Facebook

· Twitter

 · YouTube

 Contact us at wsare@montana.edu

Transcript

Stacie Clary 

Today's guest is Anna Merriman of 4M Grain and Livestock in Malta, Montana. Together with her husband Cliff, they focus on grain farming, a cow-calf operation, and offering high quality locally raised beef and lamb directly to their customers. Anna, welcome and thanks for sitting down to chat with me.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Thanks for having me, Stacie.

Stacie Clary 

So just to get us started, can you tell us a little bit more about 4M Grain and Livestock? Where are you located? What's the climate like? And when did you all get started?

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Yeah, so like you said, we live up in Malta, Montana, and we raise grain mostly and cow-calf operation. And then we have a direct marketing business where we're selling beef and a little bit of lamb. We are in North Central Montana, so the winters can be real harsh. This winter was real open. And so the cows graze a lot and that type of thing. But typically we have hot summers and nice springs and falls. And then usually we hope for a lot of snow in the

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

So kind of a we get all four seasons so to speak. Yeah.

Stacie Clary 

How long have you been doing this?

ANNA MERRIMAN 

So we purchased the farm in 2012 from his name was Mark Bruckner. He was a organic farmer and he wanted to pass it on to a young couple or young producer. So my dad made the introduction to Mark and we took it from there and he was really great to work with. We did all of our financing through the USDA at the time and we just ran with it. We both wanted to be in agriculture and felt like this was the opportunity God gave us and we needed to run with it.

Stacie Clary

Mm-hmm. that's a great story. Since your dad had the connection, were you raised in a farming or ranching family?

ANNA MERRIMAN 

I was, yes, both my husband and I both were. I grew up where our farm is, fortunately is about 15 miles north of where I grew up. So it's been on the same road and everything. So it's great that we're that close to my family. And then we grew up with cow calf and a haying operation. My dad did some custom combining that us kids helped a little bit with that.

But we did do a whole lot of what you would say conventional farming. And my husband, yeah, my husband grew up in Texas and he had cow-calf and then they did a lot of bit of farming. So he definitely had more of the farming and cow-calf livestock operation experience.

Stacie Clary

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

And both of you wanted to remain in farming as you got older and started your own family.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

We did, you he worked, originally started out with the BLM and then later the N or CS. And we always hoped, I don't know if we actually thought we would own our own farmer ranch, but that was a dream of ours. And that was something we worked at every year. We originally, after we got married, we lived in Nevada for a while and we just kept moving closer as job opportunities came up, knowing we wanted to be in Montana and specifically in Malta.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

And so it just kind of worked out. So we were always wanting to be in this, in agriculture though.

Stacie Clary 

Yeah, and you had the opportunity to purchase the land that you did and it was organic. Did you intentionally look for organic or this was an opportunity and it was already organic so you just ran with

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Honestly, we were not looking for just organic ground. This was an opportunity that came up and in the FSA office where my husband was working on the FSA side, he was working on the NRCS side, the finance guy there actually was an organic farmer. So we were really lucky to have him as a mentor. And so he really walked us through and showed us if we took on this organic operation, all the things we need to do.

And honestly, we were quite frankly, desperate enough. We were willing to do anything as long as it was profitable and we were going to be able to make a go of it. We were willing to do anything. it just happened to be we purchased this farm had been ran organically for 15 years at that point. The organic crops were worth quite a bit at that time. And the climate around here is very, it works really well with organic. We don't get so much rain that you're worrying about weeds and all that stuff, but it's

Stacie Clary

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN

It's we do all dry land farming. So it just, it was like the perfect storm to make it work. But frankly, no organic wasn't something we were looking for, but it was the niche that we were comfortable with. And we took advantage of what opportunity was given to us.

Stacie Clary 

Right. Was there a learning curve for you with the organic?

ANNA MERRIMAN 

There was, especially because my husband, his farming experience was not organic. And I had quite frankly, very little farming experience at all. So I had a much steeper learning curve, learning how to do things. you know, we really, we did like it. We didn't mind the tillage and all that. It was a unique experience, but we didn't, yeah. There was some learning curve just on. Not only the farming itself part of it, but just even the finances and the operating and knowing how to keep a budget and all those things that go along with it and running your own business, even if it, you know, all the things that go with starting a business from scratch.

Stacie Clary 

Right, right. So let us know a little bit more about your operation. Like how large is it? What do you raise? And how do you market? You said you do some direct marketing. How does that work?

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Yeah, so originally our place here is 2,700 acres. We lease part of it and we own part of it. We recently wrapped up a 10-year lease that was another 2,400 acres, and it was 60 miles from this lease. So at the time, we were raising about 4,500 acres of organic crop, which is significant when you put in all the tractor time and all that and the drive time to that lease.

ANNA MERRIMAN

That's where we were at. recently wrapped that up last fall. So now we're just farming at our place, which has been great. And it's allowed us to expand our cow calf operation. We currently run about 200 head of cow calf pairs and then around a hundred or so yearlings. we were fortunately got an opportunity to run in a community grass bank at the nature conservancy just south of Malta, which

They're really great about opening up to young producers. And so that really allowed us to expand our cow operation because we don't have a lot of grazing except for a crop aftermath and things like that. So we currently are running cow calf and then we have yearlings and then we're always looking for leases. Yeah.

Stacie Clary 

Yeah, how did you get involved with the grass bank?

ANNA MERRIMAN 

My parents, the ranch, that I grew up with, run over there. And then our Lisey, he was one of the founding, I would say members of that grass bank operation. So it's been around for over 20 years and we put in an application and they accepted it. So we started out over there with 50 head of yearlings. And then now we have around a hundred head of yearlings and a hundred pairs that we take over. And, it's great. It's a great, I encourage people to check it out and just see all the good work that they're doing with this grass bank.

Stacie Clary 

Great. And I know family is really important to you. How do your kids help out with everything on the farm?

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Yeah, so the kids, our daughter is now 16. Our son is 14. Our son is, he's very mechanically inclined and likes to drive the equipment and he likes to weld. He's always making things and building things. And so they're very involved with the day to day stuff when they're not at school. Our daughter, she loves the animals and has taken a shine to showing the animals. They're both in 4-H.

Stacie Clary

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN

And so they both kind of have their strengths. Bo, I would say, our son is more drawn to the farming and equipment side of things. And our daughter Courtney is definitely more drawn to the cattle side of things. And so they help on the weekends. They help after school when they can and then in the summer.

Stacie Clary 

That's great. That's great. What would you say were probably like the largest challenges you faced when you first started out?

ANNA MERRIMAN

I would say one of the biggest ones was when we were looking, there was no opportunities. until, until Mark, till this opportunity came up, we had been looking and just banging our heads against the wall. And so I would say that opportunities were real limited because we had no capital. We had no equity. You know, we had a couple of vehicles and we had a house and the contents in the house. But other than that, we didn't have much. So the bank doesn't want to loan you money. People don't think you can.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

The opportunity even for a contract for deed is limited because people don't think, you're not going to make it. We don't trust you. There's just there's all kinds of limiting factors when you're trying to get into agriculture at ground zero. So we were real grateful for the contract for deed, the FSA office, the USDA programs. I strongly encourage people to take advantage of those when you can. We were there strictly at FSA for a while, and then we finally graduated to a bank. But we still have guaranteed loans through the bank, through FSA. So

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

We're still underneath that, take advantage of that stuff. And then when we first started out, Cliff was working full time. I was working part time from home and then raising the kids. So he was commuting 140 miles round trip every day. we were, yeah. And we only had the stuff, our farm, our direct farm that was the 2,700 acres, but when you only have so many hours in the day to do it and like that learning curve we discussed.

Stacie Clary 

wow.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

And all of that. So the time management was really tricky. The kids were with us a lot. Oftentimes we would be loading a truck at midnight. We'd start at nine o'clock or something and be have the kids in the car sleeping and we'd be loading trucks or they would be in the tractor with us and we'd be farming to all hours of the night. So just because we had deadlines and we had to get it done, but we still had jobs and obligations because our, at the time, our operating loan did not include any kind of cost of living in there. So

Stacie Clary 

Mmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

It was very challenging when it comes to that. And thankfully, that was one of the reasons why we wanted to be in this area is because my family's close. They helped a tremendous amount with the kids. We have friends here. Yeah, we have friends here. So we just have this incredible support system that really helped us be able to succeed.

Stacie Clary 

huh.

Stacie Clary 

Right. Yeah, sounds like a great community helped you. And you are succeeding. It sounds like after going through all those challenges, and I know you're still facing challenges, but it sounds like it's become a success. It's profitable business.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Yes, yeah, it definitely is. Like I didn't touch on it earlier, but we have taken some of our animals that are less desirable, have a blind eye or a short tail or things like that. And we take those animals and we run them through our direct marketing with our beef business because they'll get knocked at the sale barn and there's nothing wrong with them. They just maybe aren't as pretty as the other ones. So we have slowly grown that. And right now we're at this tipping point where we really need to decide.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

ANNA MERRIMAN 

where we want to go with that business because there's definitely the opportunity out there, but it's tricky right now because cattle are worth so much. Like we feel this sense of guilt a little bit about having to charge so much for an animal, but it does, it tastes way better. You know where it came from. We are really great to our customers and we've had a lot of compliments about how the beef tastes. So we want to keep providing that. we're just navigating where we want to go from here. If we want to expand it or if we want to stay the same, or if we want to focus strictly on

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

the traditional cow-calf and that type of operation. So we're kind of in limbo right now, really looking at all our options and where we want to go with that. Because even, you know what, hate to, I'm going to go back just a touch when we talked about the challenges. This day and age, like around here, it's always, the eighties, the eighties were horrible, the high interest rate, the drought, the grasshoppers. And those things are all true, but I would argue back that

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

The 2010s and 20s have been arguably probably as bad or worse. And we haven't had the high interest they had in the eighties, but there's just like, have had multiple years of grasshoppers. We had a drought many years and I think it was 2021. We didn't even start our combine. And then we've had significant rain events in the fall, making it hard to get harvest done. And thankfully we had a contract one year.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

Mmm.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

And the rain had ruined our crops, but thankfully that con the guy who had contracted our grain still took it, even though some of it been sprouted and damaged. So there's been real strange just events and old farmers around here that have been going through it of like, just said, this is just so out of character. This is strange. So I feel like we've really been through a lot and it's made us stronger for those things, but I guess you just got to really push through and try to look at the upside.

Stacie Clary 

Hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

to all these challenges and really be looking for the thing that's going to make you more profitable and as well as just keep you keep you going.

Stacie Clary 

Right. Yeah, that's a lot in front of you. So you're talking about, you know, this tipping point with the direct marketing, and then you've got all the challenges with weather and grasshoppers. How do you and Cliff sit down and make those decisions? Like how much to go to the direct marketing and how much to do cow-calf? How do you communicate and make those decisions?

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Sure, so generally, honestly in the fall, the animals that we are feeding out and finishing and selling are generally dry yearlings. So in August, we usually break, preg test them in August and we'll see how many animals we have. So that's generally when we really sit down and determine what we're gonna have, how many we think we're gonna sell, how we're gonna get them fed out and all that.

We go to a processor that's about 90 miles away. It's called Montana premium processing. They're a USDA inspected facility and they're great and we really like the work they do, but they are a smaller facility. So you really have to plan out how many animals you can take in and all of that. So that's generally when we really plan out the year. And then in the spring we'll generally have one or two animals, maybe more that were dry. Either they aborted a calf through the winter or they lost a calf in the spring during

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

calving and so sometimes we will look at the age of those animals and we don't generally butcher those animals for like steaks and things like that but we will burger them which is really our bread and butter I don't want to say that we make a ton of money on that because we want to keep it affordable and we want it to get into the hands of people that we really want to share that with people so I forgot where I was Stacy

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

It's okay. Yeah, just how you make the decisions. So you say you sit in the fall and yeah.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

yeah. Yes, yes. So for the direct marketing, we generally do a lot of that planning in August and September and try to figure that out.

With the rest of the operations, Cliff and I, I we work together all the time. It's us doing most of the labor for our operation. then, so we talk all the time and we sit down. We usually renew our operating, for example, in December. So we're in October, November, we're planning out the next year. And even before that, we're actually looking in, I would say July, if we're going to plant fall crops, for example. So we're constantly looking out every month, we sit down together and do a real

dive on what we're doing and where we're going and then just talking to each other daily. I try to pick a day a week where I'm going through all of my paperwork and anything I have questions on that Cliff and I need to discuss. We'll usually do it on Sundays.

Stacie Clary 

it works for you guys. So going back earlier, you said both of you came from farming families. How have you navigated farm succession with your families if you don't mind talking about it?

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Yeah.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Yeah, no, not at all. So it's been, won't say it's been, how do I say this? Like,

Transition and succession is very emotional. So we have had our ups and downs, but I would say we're in a really great place. In October of 2022, we started having ranch meetings. My brother is home, myself, my husband, my uncle, and my dad, and then my mom, and then my...

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

uncle's wife Deb. So there's, don't know how many is that two, four, five, six. So there's seven of us that are attending most of the meetings together. So we sit down every week or try to do it every week. It doesn't always happen depending on the time of year, but we try to sit down every week and just discuss.

What's what where are the needs of the place we have started two years ago. We started feeding to maximize efficiencies. We started feeding our herd and their cows all together down at the ranch. We've started calving out in the spring together and then we brand together and then our cows go their separate ways wherever the leases are going. And we've actually kept some of our livestock down there over the summer the last couple of years as well. So

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

The secession part, I would say the biggest thing that we've.

really grown in is the communication and sitting down and being respectful. And we're working through it every meeting every day is something different. We are having much better idea of we're all invested at this point. For a while there, there was some indecision. I don't know if I want to do this. I want to do this. Like there's just there were conversations that hadn't been had thoroughly. And now we've had those conversations and people have really committed one way or the other. So now we're we're all

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

pointing towards the same direction. Our next step in this succession and transition is just honestly taking pieces of the operation, the tasks and job descriptions of people and determining who's doing it now, who wants to do it or who does it make sense to continue doing this and how are we going to transition that.

Stacie Clary 

Right.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Cliff and I personally, and I think I can speak for my brother at this point as well, like we don't want the older generation to leave the place. We don't want them to move and go away. We want them there to mentor us. We want them there to mentor our grandkids, my kids, their grandkids. We want them around. for us, it's really, we're really trying to identify areas that we can start working together and mentor and start passing off those things. Cause we also want them to have purpose.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

Right.

Stacie Clary 

Right.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

We need purpose. still need purpose. So we got, we're working through these at every meeting, determining, you know, what, what do you want to do? What don't you want to do? What responsibilities do we want to take on? What responsibilities do you guys want to let go of? Like there's the biggest thing I would say is the communication. And we, even before 2022, we actually had a mediator come in with the entire family, even the extended siblings and such that aren't on the day to day operations.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

and had a big discussion and there was some really hard conversations that were had there. There were some apologies. There was some, quite frankly, was some yelling. There was some heated emotions, but we got it out on the table and it did take us a while to heal, honestly, for me especially after that, but we did and we're at a really good place now. So, you know, sometimes that's what it takes.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it sounds like that was rough and I'm happy to hear that that you've been healing and I guess in retrospect, because those sound like really tough conversations. I'm sure there's fears there defenses go up to some really tough emotions. Looking back, do you think you all brought the mediator in at the right time or would you give advice to people to bring a mediator in sooner?

ANNA MERRIMAN 

I think I would bring in a mediator sooner because before that meteor came in, there was conversations that really should have happened that did not happen. And so there was some resentment that had already occurred. So I would say bring in a mediator at the beginning. Honestly, if there's even any thoughts about it and it doesn't have to be super strict or anything, it's just sometimes it's just easier having that person there that's experienced in that area. Just drawing, drawing questions out, bringing out the information because

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

huh.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Most, I shouldn't say most, but a lot of ranchers are really, they're used to working by themselves. They're used to being the boss. They're not used to having to answer to anybody or answer questions or.

Just, you know, they don't want to be the ones that I know. They don't want to be in the office doing paperwork. They don't want to sit down and have conversation like they want to be on the ground doing things and making a difference and doing those things. So it's really uncomfortable for most people having these conversations. So it really helps having an experienced person that you trust to come in and just ask the questions. And you don't have to answer them that day. Like, let's ask the questions, the ones that we can answer. Great. The ones you can't let's sit on them. Let's come back together.

Stacie Clary 

Hahaha

Stacie Clary 

Right.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

One of the things that we did when we first started having our ranch meetings was we wrote up a contract and everybody signed it and it was we're going to be respectful. We're going to be open minded. Like I don't remember all of them, but we all read it. We agreed on it and we all signed it and we start every meeting with a prayer.

Just like, let's all be respectful. All the things that you really just to keep that in the forefront of our mind as we go into these conversations. Because there's still heated conversations during these ranch meetings on certain topics. So I just encourage people, yeah, to be proactive as much as they can. And if you can't say it and you know you can't say it, then invest the money. It's worth it. It's absolutely worth it.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

Yeah, that sounds like it makes sense. And I like how you start your meetings very intentionally that way and reminding why and how you're all there and how you're going to communicate. sounds really important to keep the communication flowing. And, know, I know your kids are younger and I don't know if they've made decisions or thoughts about continuing farming, but how are they folded into this idea of transition and being part of the family?

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Yeah, so Cliff and I had actually taken way too long and we finally got our will and everything done a couple years ago. So we've been really intentional about this. our biggest goal is to make sure there's the opportunity. We don't demand that they come back. We don't expect them to come back.

unless they want to. really, I mean, we're hoping we would love it if they would both come back. I think Bo, our son, he's very interested in coming back. Our daughter, Les, so I think she wants to be in agriculture. I just don't know if she wants to be in this community necessarily. But at the end of the day, what we are trying to provide is the environment in which they can come back. There's room for opportunities.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

They may not want to do the day-to-day stuff. may, like I said, my son loves to do welding and things like that. Maybe he wants to be doing the farming and then he has a, I don't know, a repair truck or a welding truck on the side that he goes off and does things. Because unfortunately, as much as things cost and how the climate is right now financially and the markets, just all of it, like it's pretty rare that you can actually sustain a farm family just on what you're making.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

at the farm. Like we're all, mean, part of the direct marketing flows into that for us, part of having farming and livestock is part of that. So at the end of the day, we just want to make sure that our kids have the environment that they, that they can come back and they can make something themselves if they want to, like making room for them in that aspect.

Stacie Clary 

Right. Well, you mentioned having other income, which leads into kind of like the third part of what I wanted to talk to you about. And that's you started another business AM organizing. And so what led you to start that business? What is it and why did you get it going?

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Sure, so actually when I was on the Western SAIR Administrative Council, I was gone for one of those trips and I had forgotten to submit some paperwork to FSA. And as you know, traveling with that was great, but you are gone, my kids are young, we are farming. So there was a lot going on and I had forgot to do that. And I freaked out.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

I'm on the plane searching for paper organizing and this gal came up named Lisa Woodruff with organized 365 and she had this book called the paper solution and some other stuff and I just downloaded it, started listening on the audible and got pretty involved in listening to the podcasts and thinking about.

paperwork and household management and all these things. And so I eventually purchased one of her programs and got my house decluttered, got the paper decluttered, got it all sorted through and found that I've always been a really organized person, but maybe not at that level. And I just, I really enjoy it. And now that I've gotten through all my paperwork and have it organized, I love what it's done for.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

not only my brain, like my things aren't living in my brain all the time. I feel like it's lifted this huge mental load off me as a wife and a mother, the hired hand, the bookkeeper, like all the things that I am balancing or most ranch wives and farm wives are balancing and mothers in general and wives and stuff. anyway, last spring I decided to get my certification through that company just to start and I really like it. have a couple of clients right now.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

and I'm getting so much fulfillment out of helping them get through their paperwork and knowing where it's at. So now rather than being, if I'm not home and my husband comes home and he's like, where's this piece of paper? At one point I would have panicked and been like, I don't know. I can't think of which file it's at. And it's something he needed that moment and I'm gone or I'm not there. Now it's not a big deal. like, honey, it's in this binder and this or whatever it's at. I know where things are at. He knows where to find things.

Stacie Clary 

ANNA MERRIMAN 

So it's really helped us just knowing where things are. And then on top of that is the part of it, the planning part of it and being really intentional and proactive with the seasons of life. so I've just, it's helped me so much. And I just, I think I've truly found my passion. love agriculture and this is just a component of it that I feel like I can really make a difference in people's lives that are doing what we're doing.

Like we don't have to make it so hard. that's my niche. That's who I'm really targeting because that's what's helped me. I'm currently working on the ranch's paperwork with my dad, my uncle and my mom. And as we are moving through this transition, doing the same thing, like figuring out where all the paper is, what are we doing and getting that all organized.

Stacie Clary 

Right? That sounds perfect for you. Sounds like you found a really good niche there. You brought up seasons of life. What does that mean?

ANNA MERRIMAN 

So I would say the seasons live generally. mean, there's your personal, your household, your kids, that type of thing. There's different seasons with the ages of your kids and school and them going to school and blah, blah, blah. But then with the agriculture perspective, there's different seasons. There's calving, there's branding, there's harvesting, there's seeding, there's AI-ing if you're doing that. And there's haying and feeding. There's all these seasons of life that agriculture goes through.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

And so what I'm really trying to be proactive about that is as we're going to calving, for example, like what's what are we going to need? What are the drugs we're going to need on hand? What supplies are going to we're going to need? What's the barn and the layout and the infrastructure going to look like? And I'm not necessarily doing some of those things, but I'm bringing up some of those questions if they're not thinking about like we have a list of different things we have to have. And and even like for the household perspective of that for branding.

We have a checklist, like what do we need to do? How many people are feeding? Just, there's all these things that live in ranchers and farmers' heads that do not leave their head and people can't read minds. So I'm really trying to bring out these things and getting them on paper and having lists and having, just being able to intentionally think about these seasons of life and what's going on and how they fit into, I wouldn't say unfortunately.

Stacie Clary 

You

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Farming and ranching and personal life really, it's intertwined. It's not like if you're going to an offsite job, you're going to be a teacher or a banker or something like that where you are leaving your house, you are going and doing that job, you are leaving that job there and then you are coming home and you are focusing on your home. Farming and ranch life is not like that. It is intertwined. You might be sitting down bookkeeping, doing something like that and then your husband or your significant other comes in and is like, hey, I need you to come help me move the tractor or I need you to go get the cows in.

Stacie Clary 

Right.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Like there's this constant interruptions, which is fine. That's the life you signed up for, but it can be really overwhelming when you are working on something and then you're like, what was I doing? Doing all this. this, what I'm doing and having things be more proactive about your planning thing has really helped just knowing what you have to do, when you might have the chance to do it and being flexible and being having confidence in yourself that.

Stacie Clary 

Right.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Oh my gosh, I didn't get to do that today because we had this just one of those days and I didn't get to do it, but that's okay because I'm looking at my schedule. I'm like, I can do this tomorrow or I'm going to find a different plan to do it. just being really proactive and feeling good that it's okay. didn't get it done today. I'm going to do it another day or we're going to figure it out. So it's really helped me do that. And that's what I really want to help other, um, farm and ranch spouses, wives, even if you're not married, just that type of person or that role.

Stacie Clary 

Mm.

Stacie Clary 

Right. I would imagine there would be a demand for that just to help people reduce their stress and their burdens. Are you finding that there is a kind of a pent up demand for some assistance like that?

ANNA MERRIMAN 

think there is, I'm still trying to navigate that and tap into it. Quite frankly, people don't necessarily want to pay for organizing paper because they don't see the value in it. So I'm really working hard on showing people and putting the information in front of them and showing them the value in knowing where your things are. And there's some, I would say there's a little bit of pushback from people sometimes.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

they don't see it or they're embarrassed by it. I think that's a big part that I'm really trying to break through is they're like, oh, I don't want you to come look at my papers. I'm embarrassed about this. Like, no, that's what I'm here for. Like, let's work through it together. Don't be embarrassed. You can come look at my stuff. I'm not perfect. This isn't about perfection. It's about starting somewhere and getting through it. So I am not judgy at all. And I think there's a fear, just like when you're a housekeeper, if you have a housekeeper come in once a month, for example.

Stacie Clary 

Mm.

Stacie Clary 

Right?

ANNA MERRIMAN 

I gotta clean the house before the housekeeper comes. Well, do we? mean, you know, so I there's some of that that is there, but I have heard gotten a lot of feedback that, my gosh, yes, that is definitely needed. I am working really hard towards transitioning to yes, there's a niche now getting people to want to pay for it and and have me come. I'd love to do it one on one in person. That's my preference, but I am located in North Central Montana, so I'm really limited.

Stacie Clary 

Right, right.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

right now on how many in-person things I could do. But I'm hoping to really ramp up the virtual where we have so many virtual options. I am really hoping to get that going too, because I don't want to stop people. I know I can help everybody in some way, even if it's something small. I know I can help and I want to do that.

Stacie Clary 

Nice. So you've had a couple of really good pieces of advice so far. One is if you're looking at transition, look at bringing in a mediator early, investing in getting organized, it takes some of the stress and burden. We always end our podcast asking other advice. What kind of advice would you give young beginning farmers so that they could succeed?

be profitable and also succeed in sustainable farming or ranching.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Yeah, so I guess there's a few things. I don't just have one, I guess. So one of the biggest one thing I would say is just being open to all kinds of opportunities. Just like Cliff, know, buying a farm wasn't necessarily the top of our list.

Stacie Clary 

Mm?

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

That wasn't if we could have went and bought a ranch with cows that probably would have trumped buying a farm. But we realized that if we wanted to into agriculture and this is what we truly wanted to do that we needed to take advantage of the opportunity in front of us and make the most of it. Something else that we have discovered or we have finally quit pushing against is when you when there might be a potential opportunity in front of you and you just have roadblock after roadblock after roadblock. That's God telling you this isn't your opportunity.

Stacie Clary 

Right.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Like you need to just, things happen for a reason. You just gotta be open and not be just intent on that. You can't live and die by philosophy. You have to be able to be flexible and open to other opportunities. And I would say the last thing.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

is to invest in training and education in yourself. There are so many opportunities out there. There's plenty of number one free resources, but there are plenty of paid resources. Invest in yourself. There are so many programs out there right now that you can even sign up for that give you these opportunities to get more training and education. It's stupid not to take advantage of it right now. All of it. I just recently, for example, I went to a workshop.

Stacie Clary 

Mm-hmm.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

on AI because it's here. I'm uncomfortable with it. I don't know what I'm doing. I just, really, so I'm really, went, it was really informational and it really got my juices flowing on potential ways to take advantage of AI and our farming and ranching operation. And I've already started using it for some of that stuff. So just be really open and be looking for continuing your education. Cause even if you, there's so much stuff out there. If you don't want to go to college, that's okay.

Stacie Clary 

Uh-huh.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

You know, there's just so many educational opportunities. It's insane what's out there. So I would encourage young producers to always be looking for that. And I guess lastly is to really lean on your support system. For us, you know, we had daycare, we had my parents, we had friends. Like, don't think you need to do it all on your own. Like, it's okay to ask for help. you know, it's not like, you know, it's okay.

Stacie Clary 

Yes.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

There's a stigma sometimes, I'm not going to ask that. You know what? Yes, you can. And you know what? They appreciate it too, because they might need you someday. So it doesn't have to be one-sided. So just be open and willing to lean on and look at your support system, because it's going to take all of us. It takes more than one. You can't do it on your own.

Stacie Clary 

I think that’s fantastic advice, about leaning on a support system, being open to asking for help and taking advantage of learning opportunities. Basically, don't try to do it alone. Just always take advantage of people who are willing to help you out and take advantage of learning opportunities. I think that's really great advice for young producers. So thank you for that.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Mm-hmm.

Stacie Clary 

Well, thanks for sitting down with me. It's always lovely to talk with you. I appreciate it. So thank you for that.

ANNA MERRIMAN 

Yes, thanks for having me. I miss seeing you guys.