Fresh Growth
Fresh Growth
Kate Brewster and Mary Mills: Generational Transition in Wyoming Ranching
In this episode of Fresh Growth podcast, we have a special guest host – owner of Dirtworks Wyoming, Caitlin Youngquist. Caitlin is also a Western SARE Administrative Council member.
She speaks with first-generation Wyoming ranchers Mary Mills and Kate Brewster about their unique journeys into ranching, the challenges of generational transitions, and the innovative practices they are implementing to create sustainable and profitable operations. Their conversation touches on the importance of education, empathy, and clear communication in navigating family dynamics and the emotional aspects of transitioning ranch businesses. The conversation also highlights the integration of goats into traditional beef operations and the significance of adapting ranch management practices to modern challenges.
Kate and Mary remind us, "Change is hard for everybody, especially in agriculture".... and "don't be afraid to try stuff because that's how we learn."
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Contact us at wsare@montana.edu
In this episode of Fresh Growth, we have a special guest host, the owner of Dirtworks Wyoming, Caitlin Youngquist. Caitlin is also a Western SARE administrative council member. She speaks with first-generation Wyoming ranchers, Mary Mills and Kate Brewster, about their unique journeys into ranching, the challenges of generational transitions, and the innovative practices they are implementing to create sustainable and profitable operations. Their conversation touches on the importance of education, empathy, and clear communication in navigating family dynamics and the emotional aspects of transitioning ranch businesses. The conversation also highlights the integration of goats into traditional beef operations and the significance of adapting ranch management practices to modern challenges.
Speaker 03:Welcome to the Fresh Growth Podcast hosted by Western SARE. I'm Caitlin Youngquist. It's a beautiful snowy day here in Northern Wyoming, and today I'm joined by two first-generation Wyoming ranchers. I've had the pleasure of working with both Mary Mills and Kate Brewster during my time with the University of Wyoming Extension, and I've always been impressed by their commitment to learning and growing as both individuals and business owners, and to their dedication to their community and the ranching industry. So welcome both of you to the show. You're both first-generation ranchers, and I would love to hear a little bit more about the road that brought you to ranching. Mary, would you tell us how you got here?
Speaker 02:Yeah, thank you. I grew up in Seattle, Washington. I loved the outdoors. My only experience with livestock was trail rides and Girl Scouts and petting zoos and the zoo. But I went to the University of Wyoming and I met my husband there. We both got our degrees and we weren't really planning on being in ranching right away. Andrew is the middle of five children. And although he always loved the ranch, we did not think we would end up there. We were going to... He got a degree in accounting and was going to do that. And then we ended up getting a call from... Right at the beginning of 2015, and we started managing a ranch then, we thought we'd have to save up money for a few years and kind of find a place and buy our way back in. But we ended up back at the family place about six years ago. And so I guess I would say I married into it, but I didn't realize I was when I did because we got married in 2011 and we spent the next... four years finishing our degrees and we were set to do something else and then we pivoted and now we're in ranching full-time.
Speaker 03:And so here you are. We're glad to have you. And Kate, how did you get here?
Speaker 01:Well, so I grew up in Southern California. I know a lot of people love to hate on that and But I grew up in Southern California and I grew up with my grandparents mostly. And my grandpa worked on a... Well, he didn't work there. He helped on his friend's ranch in Oregon in the summertime. So I grew up that we pretty much spent all summer in cow camp with grandma and grandpa on a fifth wheel camper. And it was the coolest thing ever. And it was everything I ever wanted to do. When I was a little kid... I would... If you asked me what I wanted to be, I'd tell you I wanted to be John Wayne. So, there was that. But I started working my way up. In high school, I worked for some horse operations, equine operations. And then I went to CWC for equine science and management. And then from there, I just started getting whatever job I could get. I mean, I started at the bottom mucking stalls. So... I was hungry and I took whatever I could take. And I worked at sale barns. I worked on cow-calf operations. I doctored wheat pasture calves. So I got a lot of really cool opportunities to work all over the western U.S. and just grow from there. I was really fortunate and blessed to have some amazing mentors along the way that taught me a lot. And when I met my husband in 2018, I was working for a purebred operation over in Gillette, Wyoming, and I met him and it was downhill from there. No, when I met him, I was working at a purebred operation in Gillette and then we got together and And I moved over to Ten Sleep to be with him on his family operation. And I've been here ever since.
Speaker 03:So now you're both owners and operators of cattle ranches near the town of Ten Sleep, Wyoming, and have both recently gone through some family transitions, transitioning the ranch business from one generation to the next. And those can be really challenging and a difficult process. What have you learned through that process? Or what would you share with somebody else who's been through that or going through that same process of generational transition? Kate, would you start?
Speaker 01:Okay, this is Kate Brewster. So the hardest thing about a family transition is the emotions. It's going to be hard. It's going to be hard no matter what, no matter which family we're talking about, no matter who it is, it's going to be difficult. And I think the biggest things I learned was that You really have to try to put the emotion aside and treat it as a business if you're going to carry it on as a business. I think an important conversation to have with the family is, is this a business that we are wanting to transition or is this an inheritance that we're wanting to pass out to the family when grandpa passes, when dad goes? You know, all those hard conversations we really don't want to have. But the best thing I can say to someone going through it is set your boundaries and realize that you have to make choices for you and your family first and foremost. So set your boundaries and realize that if things aren't progressing in a way where you are guaranteed a future there, you need to have those conversations. And if it's not happening, then you might have to make some really hard choices.
Speaker 03:Good reminders, thank you. I
Speaker 02:would agree with that. This is Mary Mills. So, I guess my biggest takeaway from it, and Kate's right, the emotions are really hard, but the person with the most incentive to see a ranch transition through is you. And this was a really hard thing for my husband and I to, I guess, rectify, because... we stood to gain the most from it, it felt like. But we really wanted to see the ranch continue in the family, and there were some really hard things that needed to happen for that to happen, and some really difficult conversations. But I can't remember, I read an article once that said something to that effect, is that you are have to be the one to make those steps. And we did. And we definitely had to be honest with ourselves, honest with our family, and we needed them to be honest as well with what they wanted. And so I would say being honest with yourself, your family, and then also firm in your deadlines. We were... We had backup plans because it wasn't... You know, this wasn't the only thing we could ever do with our entire lives. And we needed it to work for our family as well as for them. And we needed everybody to be kind of content at the end. I wouldn't say that everyone is 100% happy. And I don't know that that's even possible. But I think that everybody's still talking to each other. So I guess we've got that going for us.
Speaker 01:I understand what you mean. You
Speaker 02:know, so I think we've got a win there. I feel that most helpful to talk to others about their personal experiences. And that's a really tough thing because a lot of people don't want to talk about it. Even, you know, it feels very personal and it is very personal. It's family and it's also business. And that's a really hard thing. for some people to talk about, but I found that most helpful to ask other people, how did they do it and what were the steps they took? And I think having a third party accountant and lawyer really helped us move the transition along. Just having someone else to be accountable to or setting appointments and keeping them, like if it had just been up to the family, And us, I don't know that we still would have it done. So just having those extra people involved that can support, guide, and actually know how it's gone for other people, that seemed to be the most helpful for us.
Speaker 03:So having a good accountant and a good attorney for sure is part of the process. Where are some of the other allies or unexpected allies maybe that were helpful to you along the way?
Speaker 02:I would just say friends, talking to them about what they had been through and things that had gone well, things that had not. Just trying to get an idea of how we could move forward and keep that momentum going and actually accomplish what we set out to do.
Speaker 03:Kate, was that similar to what you found?
Speaker 01:Yeah, I agree. I think I have some other... I have some thoughts to add to that as well. And this kind of goes back to our other question about the process and sharing what other people are going through. I think that it's really important to have a lot of empathy for this older generation that is transitioning the farm or ranch to the next because things have changed so much. You know, most generations that are transitioning these operations are in their 70s. I know the ranching community is older than the farming community even. So the typical age for a rancher. So these are the generation where, you know, when their grandfather passed the ranch to them and their father, it was done with a handshake because you could still do that. There wasn't all these lawyers and legal papers and document and tax troubles and all these things that we have to worry about nowadays. They never had to worry about that because it was a handshake and done. There you go. And, you know, you knew that when grandpa passed on, you were getting the operation. It was going to continue with you. And it's so different now. And So much has changed during their lifetime. And I think that's important to consider as well, because when they were kids, you know, they could you could support a family on 100 head of cows if you had the right operation. And now to support a family, you're looking at closer to 500 head of cows to comfortably support a family on an operation. So that's a huge shift. a huge change, and they've gone through all these huge changes of, you know, all the laws have changed and the taxes have changed, and then you introduced the internet and social media, and that's not a drag against them at all. That's just to say, like, I think that's why it is so difficult to do this transition, I think, more than ever now, because so much has changed that It's not, you just have to be very empathetic of that because they tend to be like, well, you know, my granddad and I, we just shook hands and there we go. Well, your granddad didn't have to worry about inheritance tax wiping out the entire family farm, you know? So a lot has changed in that aspect. In terms of what has been the most helpful, I would 100% agree that that having a good team of lawyers and accountants really matters. Having a really good lawyer that understands the law and has everything so that it doesn't have to be done again. It's done once and it's done right and you don't have to worry about, oh, did we transfer those shares properly? Is that lined out? Is the land lined out? What have we got going on here? Because that is where It gets really scary as the new producer coming on to the, well, not coming on to the operation, but as the new producer taking over the operation with all the legal stuff nowadays, you have to have it locked in. And that's the scariest part for us as a new producer, I would say, in my opinion, is the fact that what if there's a loophole and down the road, I get slapped with government taxes when dad passes on. That's the scary things. And so that's where having the good accountant and the good lawyer definitely makes a huge difference because having that peace of mind of like, nope, everything's lined out. Everything's done properly. We don't have to worry about inheritance tax. We don't have to worry about the property taxes changing, about values of assets changing to where now we're going to just have this huge jump in taxes or in estate stuff like that because we dealt with that when my husband's grandma passed away. She only was a 1% owner of the business at that point when she passed away and we ended up owing over $80,000 in taxes. So it's really scary when you go through that. And I think my father-in-law going through that when his mom passed of owing those taxes on the ranch, I think that was really eye-opening for him. And that really did help us because he saw, oh my God, like she only owned 1% of this business and we owed this much in taxes. What's going to happen to Mark if something happens to me? So I think another thing that was really, that I want to touch on that was important for me as the in-law is that when the emotions are really high and also I, might I add, as an in-law that was active on the operation. I was there every day we loaded trucks, every day we moved cows, every day we sorted, every day we cab. So, very hands-on in the operation, but being an in-law, when the emotions flare between the family, because during these things they are going to, I had to remind myself that my goal was to be here to help my husband, and that That's why I'm here. I'm here to help my husband. I'm here to be a supportive spouse, whether you're the wife or the husband in the situation. And also, it's very, very hard on a marriage. And I ended up reaching out to therapy because it's such a hard process. It's such a hard transition. Ours was very emotional. And there's no shame there. and going and asking for help and getting that help because at the end of the day, your marriage still needs to come first and you have to take care of your marriage through these difficult transitions and you really have to be a team and see it as this is us against the issue of transition. This is us against the issue of making sure all the paperwork's done and not taking it on as, this disaster that your life's falling apart because it can feel like that. It really can when emotions get high and you are in the middle of it and you're just like, it's so hard on a marriage. So to remember that seeking help is sometimes really important and remembering that you guys are still a team and that your marriage does need to come first.
Speaker 03:So Mary, you also have a young family. How do you plan to make this next transition different with your children when they get to the point of wanting to make decisions about staying with the ranch or moving on?
Speaker 02:Yeah. So my kids are seven and 10 currently, and that is a lot of our focus through this transition has been, we basically go from the ranch has been transferred to us and now we are looking at building a plan for for the next generation because there was a lot of confusion and question on the last transition on how it was going to go how we would make this work and I recently attended a ranching for profit seminar and one of the things they said there that really stuck with me is you do not owe your children a job or an inheritance you do owe them clarity that's really good and I think That would have gone a really long ways in our case. My husband started asking his family, like when he was 16, what's the plan for the ranch, guys? How is this going to work? And he was always just told, oh, we'll see, you know, for the next 10, 15 years. And so I think that really gives your kids, you know, if you are straightforward with them, and telling them, you know, this is the plan. You know, you have the opportunity to do this. But I think also saying, you don't need to do this. Because I think I've seen a lot of families where maybe someone stayed out of an obligation that they felt, not necessarily, you know, their love of ranching or their love of the business or whatever. And I think I would rather my kids want to stay. So that is part of it is we want to create a business that they are excited to be a part of. And then we need to be clear with them on what that looks like going forward. And we don't have that figured out yet, but we just took ownership a couple months ago. So I feel like we do have a little time to work that out and figure it out. But I think that's the goal is clarity with our children and saying that we own this and that someday you can, and here are the steps that you can take to own this.
Speaker 03:I think it's such a huge gift to the next generation to provide them with the clarity and that on-ramp, if that's what they choose to do. Yeah.
Speaker 02:And to not feel guilty. I mean, equal is not always fair and fair is not always equal. The thing is, I mean, operations used to be able to split up and still be viable. That's not the case for this operation. It can't be split and still be a viable operation for a job anymore. So it has to go to one person and they have to figure out how to make it work and how to move forward with that. So yeah, we have a lot of work cut out for us, I think.
Speaker 03:I really respect and appreciate you both and have enjoyed watching you go through this transition and how committed you are to seeing it through and taking care of your families and just making sure things are done right. I want to switch gears a little bit, Kate. You received a Western Sare Farmer Rancher Grant and have added goats to your very traditional beef ranching operation. Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 01:Yeah. So, yes, that's a great way to put it. We were a very traditional cowboy type beef operation. And adding goats was definitely an interesting twist. But we... So, coming into it, my SARE grant project is we're studying... goat grazing and how it affects seeding new perennials while also removing invasive weeds. And what we're looking at is their hoof traffic and seeding sites before and after they come in and graze the area to see how their hoof traffic affects planting. So if we seed before, does their hoof impact help plant those seeds? Because we're just going to be air seeding. And then also if we seed after, does that hoof traffic help break that soil up and get it prepared for seeding better? And then also looking at reducing and removing the invasive weed species and if grazing them while seeding helps that new perennial grasses to establish better and essentially choke out the weeds because they've been grazed down before or very soon after. seeding. So we started with the goats because it was another little side income. And I actually just started with feeder kids. So we weren't even grazing them at all. It was just some feeder kids to feed out and resell when we got the pounds on them to get them up to wait for butcher to become a We quickly noticed how well they did around the barn and how well they ate stuff down, so then we kind of expanded from there. I got some red does, and it just kind of exploded from there. They definitely have made a huge impact, and so... That is why we have grown so much with them, because they have done a fantastic job of cleaning up the weeds. And the results we've seen with them have been pretty ridiculous, actually. It's been pretty mind-blowing. How
Speaker 03:many do you have now?
Speaker 01:So we're running about 100 head of bread does, of mother does a year.
Speaker 03:And you've been talking a little bit about expanding to maybe send some of the goats out for grazing and weed control to some of the neighbors.
Speaker 01:Yeah, so we've had a lot of interest in having them come work other operations and just clear ground or just come up and clean river bottom, especially. We have a lot of river bottom here in Tensleep area. We've got the no wood and then over Hyattville, they've got the paint rock. And so there's been a lot of interest in it. And really and truly, all I'm waiting on is getting enough head of does to go and getting the logistics of it figured out. And we're going to be heading to some other operations to help clean up some weeds.
Speaker 03:So that's really great. I know you're also committed to a low input operation and being very intentional around your genetics and making sure you're keeping animals that thrive in your system. Tell us more about that.
Speaker 01:So we are really focusing on using our adaptive genetics by selecting goats that fit our standards. We're focusing on not worming. So we don't worm our does unless they need it. And if they need to get wormed, they go on our list and they go to town. We don't trim hooves. We do not kid in a barn and we do not jug them. A lot of guys... that run goats treat them like sheep and they kid them in March and they jug them in a barn and they rotate them into a kind of a maternity pen. And then they go out into the big, the pasture, the fields, whatever they're doing. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. But we didn't want to take that approach because A, we don't have the facilities to do that. It would cost a lot to build that infrastructure. And B, We are cattlemen, so we treat them like cows, kind of. And we're like, well, I don't see why not. I don't see why you can't just kid on your own and raise a kid and go from there. So they kid out on pasture. And if you don't take your kids and get them up and going, they go to town. We don't rotate them for about the month of kidding just because we do realize those kids are not quite big enough to travel that far. But we have them set up where they have their bed ground and they can kid and drop their kids there. We have guard dogs with them. We run three head of guard dogs. So they are protected and those does are expected to do it on their own and make it work.
Speaker 03:It's been really fun to watch that grow and get to see the part of the operation really add to the ranch. Where can people find you if they want more information about your goats and your ranch? What's your website?
Speaker 01:So our website is Brewster, B-R-E-W-S-T-E-R, Ranch, R-A-N-C-H, Y-O, W-Y-O, and that is .com. But we are also on Facebook and Instagram as Brewster Ranch, Y-O. So you can find us there and learn more about the goats and everything we're doing with them.
Speaker 03:Mary, I know you and Andrew pursued some of your own education around grazing and ranch management before you came back to the family place. And it's been fun to watch you over the years make some changes on some of your grazing and cattle management, implementing some winter grazing and a few other things. Will you tell us a little bit about what you've added to your operation and also where you've pursued some of your education and what's been really helpful to you?
Speaker 02:Yeah, thank you. So we were running a ranch and... the owner wanted to do organic beef. He wanted to raise organic beef. And we came into the operation with the goal of turning a profit. So we had our eye on that, and Andrew wanted to find a way to create organic beef in a profitable way. The owner wanted to do it in a very conventional way, wanted to raise organic hay and organic silage and feed in a feedlot. And we weren't super excited about that. So we went and we took a grazing school from Jim Garish. He does management intensive grazing. And honestly, I would say that school changed our life. We... had our eyes open to all these different possibilities available through using electric fence and grazing irrigated ground. And when we came back to the family place, we showed up in the winter right before calving. And so we were, you know, we were doing the traditional way, feeding the cows every day. We had a ton of hay to feed up. Our heifers were in a feedlot at the ranch, and we were feeding them every day. And I turned to Andrew one day, and I said, we're not doing this another year like this, because we had already tried some things at the other ranch we were at, and I do not enjoy beating my head against the wall, haying all summer. We have some irrigation troubles. The irrigation is just not very developed on our place right now, and so they would take one cutting from everywhere, and then we wouldn't be able to get it wet again, and it would just burn up, and there would be nothing. Also, where our cows were calving, they were able to get down on the creek, and that first winter, I'm pretty sure we lost five or six calves, and then also their mothers left the herd as well because they weren't raising a calf. So it was kind of a devastating thing that I was a part of, and I said, we've got to get these cows off of here. There's no reason to be losing these calves in this way. So we spent $7,000. We got ourselves a fencer. We built ourselves a skeleton of electric fence around the ranch and paid for itself multiple times the very next winter, which is just so amazing to me. We went from haying everything to only haying our side rolls because we can actually get those wet again. And so we grew our hay fields, just we grew them tall and let them be. And we could irrigate them once or twice. And they were actually able to hold the water because they had so much cover on them. And so we go into the winter grazing season with about, I don't know, three to four feet of grass. They have been grazing it in February, March, April. We've pushed our calving a month this year, so we haven't really even started with it yet this year. But we move our electric fence every day to a new patch of ground. on our irrigated ground and the cows are able to eat it. And it's so amazing to me. I mean, it's like, I can't remember. I think it was three degrees out this morning. But you get down on the ground next to where that grass is growing near the ground and we have green grass down there that those cows are eating in January and February, which has just been pretty amazing to me. I guess we like to do a low input system. I don't like to feed cows. I don't like to put up hay. I guess I should say I don't like to feed cows with a tractor. Going out and moving electric fence every day is super fun for me. We get to see the cows, they get excited, and they get fresh ground every day. And when we were calving earlier, that really helped with our the health of our calves is having that fresh ground every day for them to be available. So that was one major change we did was simply growing our hay fields up and then grazing them off in the winter. Definitely helped with water retention. We didn't get much water on them, but whatever we do get on is utilized and is held there in the soil, which is pretty amazing. A few other things that we've done. Like I said, our heifers, our replacement heifers used to be in a feedlot fed for ever since they were weaned all the way up through breeding, you know, their first breeding season. And the first year that we did that, that was another moment where we went, we're not doing this again. Feedlots aren't for us. I'm sure they work great for other people, but For our low-end boat system, I would rather they put their manure out on the fields themselves. So we shortened our calving window on our heifers down to 45 to 60 days. That's been a real help to us as well. We just have not a lot of people helping with calving, and so if we can tighten those windows up, that helps us. with that and then also with our breed back. For genetics, I guess something my husband actually read in a Chip Hines book was, if one can, they all should. And I really like that because, I mean, I think sometimes we get confused and think that we work for the cows. But really, The cows are there working for us and they need to work for us and they need to work for our environment and they need to work for what we have available for them. They need to be able to provide that. So I think that's been a lot of our transition is the cows that can work for us. And there definitely had been some fall out of the herd and now our herd is coming back We've been back for six years, and our herd is starting to grow again. But it's nice to have cows that are going to do the work. We did do some cover crops. We don't do a lot with it because, like I said, our irrigation leaves some things to be desired. But we do mess around with some no-till drilling, and we do that honestly just in case. fields that we want to help along. And it's had some mixed results. I do enjoy experimenting with it though, especially when you, I don't know, when you use a no-till drill, it's like you're saving all those farming steps. And so why not throw some seeds in the ground and see what happens? But yeah, I feel like I rambled on there and I'm not sure if I hit what I was supposed to, but
Speaker 01:No, I love that, Mary. Just to make a comment here. I think that is so, that's such a great quote that if one can, they all should, because we totally approach it the same way of they work for us, we don't work for them. So that if one can, they all should is like, well, she did it. So what are the rest of you doing? I love it.
Speaker 03:As we all know, change is hard, and change is hard for everybody, and it's especially hard in an industry that values tradition and has longevity in many of these family operations. So as we're wrapping up, just thinking about that and listening to both of you talk and thinking about how you've worked with your spouses and the families to make incremental changes and positive changes, what would you say to somebody else who is looking to make some of these changes towards more sustainable, low-input operations and more profitable operations? And what would you share with them as they were wanting to figure out how to make some of these changes and maybe communicate with others about how to make these changes?
Speaker 01:I'll let you go first, Mary. Unless you want me to, but I think you've got really good insight on this. All right. I guess
Speaker 02:for us, it was figure out, for one, what makes money and what doesn't. And Don't lie to yourself saying that because you made that hay that that hay was free, because it wasn't. And also, as far as we go, we aren't making the best hay. I know that somebody that's out there that they make hay for a living, that's going to be the best hay that I could feed my cows, not the hay that I'm, you know, putting up. But I think just looking at the inputs and saying, you know, we don't need to do that, it's kind of hard to say because you just start making changes. And we kind of live out where nobody really drives by, so it's easier. There aren't a lot of people that ask questions and say, what are you doing all that weird stuff? I guess just don't be afraid to try stuff because that's how we learn. And I would say... The game has changed from years ago and you can't keep doing it the way it's always been done because that doesn't pay anymore. So you got to be honest with your numbers and honest with what you can do. Like I said, I don't like haying and I don't like feeding hay. So that was a real good place for us to start and figure out how we could do that differently.
Speaker 01:I would say I completely agree with Mary in terms of like, I think the thing that helps the most is run the numbers. Run the numbers. Because if you get those numbers out, the numbers don't lie. There's no emotion behind the numbers. There's no feelings. There's no this or that. run the numbers and see what works for your operation. And I also think for us, at least, a big thing is being honest about what kind of operation you have and what do you have available to you. Our river bottom, we have about 120, 140 acres of irrigated ground to our pivots. And The one pivot is a challenge because the ground is a challenge. It's very alkali. It gets washed out. It gets washed out by the river. All these things. I could go into so much detail on it. But at the end of the day, we had to be honest with ourselves and look at our operation for what it is and what challenges we have with Mother Nature and what are our honest limitations. Because if you have this great farm in Iowa... where you have a thousand acres of farm ground, you have a totally different game than I have out here in rural, dry, bad lands of Wyoming. So looking at your operation for what it is, being honest about it, being honest with it, and using what you've got to the best of your ability and running the numbers to go with that. Because there's guys that can do So many cool, crazy things in different parts of the world that I can't even grow what they're growing. So I think that's huge to me is looking at that. And then, like I said, run the numbers. The numbers don't lie. If it's going to pencil, consider it. Because right now in this world and in agriculture that we're in, it's so hard to make it pencil. I mean, our cattle market this year is amazing, so that's great. But every other year, you really got to look at your numbers. So I think that's really big. And that's a way, I think, with the family operations where you're dealing with multi-generations, it's, hey, okay, let's count how many gallons of fuel we're using to plow this field and to till the soil and to do all these things. Let's figure it out. Let's get the numbers and let's see what the numbers say because they can't lie.
Speaker 03:Well, thank you both. I really enjoyed this conversation and you both bring a lot of creativity and clarity to the family operations there. I look forward to watching how that evolves in coming years as you continue to develop the business and continue to take care of the land and work with the family and lead in your community. So thank you for joining me today and keep up the good work.
Speaker 02:Thanks, Caitlin. Okay,
Speaker 00:thank you. Thank you for listening to Fresh Growth. We hope you enjoyed this episode. For more information on Western SARE grants and our learning resources, visit westernsare.org.
